So - some thoughts. When two people are in love, is it anybody else's business? Why not keep it to yourselves. Keep that precious secret?
Nobody seems aware of Iago's duplicity. Desdemona can easily match wits, as you will see in Act 2 - but notice the change from verse to prose. Why do you think Shakespeare does this?
Discuss the dramatic irony present already:)
Nobody seems aware of Iago's duplicity. Desdemona can easily match wits, as you will see in Act 2 - but notice the change from verse to prose. Why do you think Shakespeare does this?
Discuss the dramatic irony present already:)
I think that when people are in love, many others feel that they need to intervene. Many times people claim they are in love, face challenges that others give them, and then their love ends. Depending on the people or group, you can either let the world know or keep it a secret. Othello and Desdamona are most definitely in love but Iago feels as though it is now his relationship to deal with, which is wrong. Sometimes I wonder if Iago secretly has feelings for Desdamona underneath all of his evil actions. The again he is doing that based off of the fact that he wants to weaken Othello. So as far as secrets with love, it depends on the individual. If it were me I would let everyone know. Then again, people playing those characters may feel differently.
ReplyDeleteAs far as prose to verse, this seems to be used to emphasize the importance or neutral meaning of a line or phrase. With Desdamona, I felt like it was more when she was speaking of or directing comments at other people.
Here are my discussion points:
ReplyDelete1. Act II starts in verse until Desdemona starts speaking seriously. And then again when Othello enters, but only until Othello leaves. Roderigo and Iago speak in prose, and then Iago alone speaks in verse. What is Shakespeare trying to get across by doing this? What is he trying to tell the audience about these characters?
2. The imminent war with the Turks is easily pushed aside by a simple storm. How does this change the trajectory of the play?
3. When Iago and the women reach Cypress, Iago starts bashing women. Why does Desdemona egg him on and play along? Why doesn't this make anyone suspicious of Iago's character?
4. Othello has Iago unload the bags from the ships instead of some lower ranking member of their troupe. Why does Othello do this? Is it because Othello has some suspicion as to Iago's deception?
5. In one of Iago's soliloquies, he accuses Othello of sleeping with many different married women. To play the Devil's advocate, has he? If he had, wouldn't it be more obvious in their interactions? Or is this just another ploy to sway the audience to hate Othello?
Act II questions
ReplyDelete1. Does Iago really believe Cassio loves Desdemona? If not, why would he try to convince Roderigo he does?
2. Considering the conversation between Iago and Cassio (as well as previous bits from Act I), is Iago in love with Desdemona too??
3. Cassio brings up the animal theme twice when talking about being drunk: "I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial!" Why is this such an important theme in this play?
4. Man, Iago knows perfectly well that he's practically playing the devil's advocate here. "Divinity of @#!*% ! When devils will the blackest sins put on they do suggest at first with heavenly shows as I do now." What gives? What are Iago's motives anyway??
When two people are in love I think it is no one else's business...unless someone else either has reason to intervene,or secretly loves one of the people who are in love. I think that Iago actually loves Desdemona. However the love he feels for her is selfish love. He hates Othello so much that he wants to take everything close to him and make it rightfully his. I think that the only reason Iago wants Desdemona is so Othello can't have her.
ReplyDeleteI think it's kind of ironic how Othello and Cassio view Iago as an honest man, and yet Iago has built this plan to deceive them the entire time.
In case you didn't see them on the Act I page:
ReplyDelete1. Could the fact that Othello and Desdemona arrive on separate ships be foreshadowing of what's to come?
2. Cassio, though told to be on watch, is easily swayed to join the drinking, knowing full well his lightweight capacity for alcohol. Is it possible that Iago chose Cassio to be his patsy because he sees how mentally weak he is, much in the same way he uses Roderigo?
3. To respond to Evan, I do not think that Othello suspects Iago's treachery, and that this suspicion leads to his not promoting Iago. However, could it be because of the company Iago keeps? Othello could easily already bear mistrust towards Roderigo, who seems to frequent Iago's company.
4. I, much like Evan, wonder why Iago suspects that Emilia had an affair with Othello. However, I also wonder if it goes unexplained as a literary device, giving the audience the feeling of knowing more about Iago's motives, while actually raising more questions.
5. At the beginning of scene three, Othello urges Cassio to use restraint, revealing that he has at least some knowledge of Cassio's problem with alcohol. Why then does he sill entrust him with standing watch? Could is be a sign of Othello's distrust of his colleagues that Cassio and Iago are the two soldiers whom he trusts the most?
1. Oh Iago, how can you possibly still have people still listening to you still? Even after your rant on how evil minded women are? I think he is still lucky his wife is still choosing to be married to him.... for now.
ReplyDelete2. Why does Iago openly speak of his hatred towards his own wife, and yet wants to take revenge on the possibility that others may have violated her?
3. So..... what was the purpose of Scene 2? Why did the announcement require its own scene? That seems strange...
4. I think we see Iago as instantly evil, because in almost all of Shakespeare's other plays we see one individual as a Christ figure. However in Othello, Iago is definitely the Devil figure, almost to the extreme. He knows exactly what the other characters weaknesses are and preys on those weaknesses. Iago knows that men don't think rationally after alcohol is present (II.iii.243-44). He knows that jealousy and distrust destroy relationships. He acts in different ways depending on the people he's around and what he wants to accomplish. He knows how to manipulate situations to glorify himself. All of these traits, the Devil has. I think Shakespeare has decided to explore how the Devil thinks and acts and I think he does that wonderfully through the character Iago.
5. So I just read Iago's soliloquy at the end of Act 2, and lo and behold, almost the entire thing is comparing himself to the Devil. Hm.... Who could've made that connection? Oh wait.... I did.
Yes, Iago wants to damn Othello's soul. He is not content with just torturing him on earth. Aidan's point is well made that the arrival on separate ships is foreshadowing divisiveness. Please note the post for Act 3 folks.
ReplyDeletelove
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Taylor Kingman
ReplyDeletePersonal business should only have to be made into public business when there are probabilities for danger or when human welfare is at risk. If your secret business is not hurting anyone or anything, then it is your secret to keep and keep keeping or reveal when the you feel the time is right.
I am sure Othello did not want Brabantio to discover his marriage to his Desdemona from Iago's rude awakening, but it might have been refreshing to have his love out in the open. It may have been exciting to love in secret, but that shouldn't last because you should be proud of your love. So.... for that reason, I think Othello may be irritated at how his love became public, but he still is proud to stand with his love in public.
I believe the significance of Iago's switch from verse to prose in his dialogue with Desdemona is his different roles. He uses verse to speak to Desdemona because he is matching her wit and putting on a classy, aristocratic veneer. He switched to prose when he began his soliliquoy. His language became his own. No longer poetic or melodic. Here he uses his real voice; the one no other character knows yet.
The dramatic irony in the play so far is finger-nail biting and intriguing. The reader is invited, actually forced, to get front-row seats into Iago's complex, mysterious schemes and lies. You want him to lose so, so badly, but yet, you still eat up each minute you get to spend listening to that vile man lie and act and manipulate. I am excited to see how the dramatic irony progresses.
After Othello discharges Cassio he says to him “I’ll make thee and example”. So, If Othello is making an example of what happens to drunk officers on duty who get in fights with Cassio, then why does he seem as if he will accept him back (before Iago steps in)?
ReplyDeleteIt’s almost cringe-worthy watching Iago get Cassio drunk. Is this because is so able to seem innocent one second (singing bar songs) and the next second he is revealing his evil plan to the audience?
What is the purpose of scene II? (Other than it is necessary so that there is a scene III). It seems a bit redundant since in scene one it is said that the Turks were already defeated…so, why?
In response to Aiden’s 4th point, I don’t really think that Emilia had an affair with Othello. I think that since Iago lies to and deceives pretty much everyone he knows, he had trouble thinking that everyone also is not as false as he is, so he in turn suspects those around him of treachery. Also, I think that he is looking for any excuse that he can divine up to hate Othello more, although while he hates Othello so much is the question, although in this play, it is probably not as important as to how he hates, which Shakespeare seems to focus the most on in this play.
I think that characters’ switching from verse to prose is Shakespeare telling us when they are speaking honestly, and when they are speaking in a way that covers up what they are really thinking, whether it be wit, or else. For example, when Iago is deceiving someone, he speaks in prose, but when he is speaking his mind (showing his true villainous self) he speaks in verse.
The dramatic irony present already in Othello is the fact that Iago is constantly called "Honest Iago" which to the audience, is incredibly frustrating considering he is the absolute opposite. Iago is a horribly jealous man saught out to ruin Othello's life in order to improve his own. Iago plots to ruin the relationship between othello and his new wife Desdamona by first waking her father and telling him that she has run off with the moor (brabantio accuses othello of witchcradt because he doesnt think it possible for somebody to fall in love with a black man) The play othello is fueled by jealously from the start when roderigo seems to be in love with desdamona and iago plots to destroy their relationship.
ReplyDeleteNow, for the question about love. Love should never be a secret, unless of course secret love is the only possible way for two to be together. Othello and Desdemona seem to have enough of an excuse to keep their relationship under wraps (considering that othello is a moor and desdamona's father is incredibly over protective). But love is also about enduring difficult tests. I am not saying that one must always leave their love open to the public, but if one is too afraid to show their love in public because of the judgements and reactions of society, then its not real love at all.
I have enjoyed reading your posts. I agree with Tori that Emilia's affair with Othello is mere smoke to disguise Iago's true intent. There is no way that he would not have exacted revenge on her if she had stepped out on him. The fact that they are still married is intriguing. He must have some redeeming qualities that Emilia stays????
ReplyDeleteWhen Desdemona and Othello are reunited in Cyprus, it obvious that he loves her so much and its a wonder how anyone can question that fact, especially Othello himself. But when you love someone to such a large degree, your biggest fear about them is they will suddenly stop loving you back. The more in love you are the more susceptible you are to believe that the love isn't always returned. It makes you more vulnerable to getting hurt by that person when you open yourself up to them. It's not that he doubts Desdemona, but that he will not be good enough for her anymore.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a man's reputation is shown to be a really great importance to him in this act. Cassio is only worried about his reputation being ruined when Othello dismisses him.
As for dramatic irony, it gets the audience involved mentally and emotionally from the start. They feel angry, frustrated, concerned, and attached to characters like Othello, Iago, Cassio, and Desdemona. Dramatic irony is the almost strongest tool to get you to feel sympathy for a character.
Personally, I do not believe that it is anyone else's business who you are involved with unless the couple is making it your business.
ReplyDeleteOn to Iago; it appears that Iago has a different face for everyone, and this could include his wife. It is very possible that she did step out of line and that he is envious of Othello's and Desdemona's relationship, so he simultaeneously get revenge on all of them.
In response to Madi's question, I do not think it matters to Iago or his plans if Cassio really does love Desdemona. Iago just needs everyone to think he does
It very much angers me that the people around Iago cannot feel that he is untrustworthy. Usually when people lie, when they try to become another person, there is still a sense of what it is they are hiding. Is Iago simply too much his own creation--indeed, a lie within a lie and his own person having suffocated long ago from the layers of lies--what is his motivation to destroy Othello, besides habit?
ReplyDeleteAnd I second Tori's question--why DOES Othello seem to be ready to accept Cassio back before Iago steps in? Is this Iago further corrupting Othello's mind and tainting him with his own evil?
I cannot believe Othello would have actually had an affair with Emilia. He is too good a man for that. On the other hand, I can believe that Iago, entrenched as he is in a world of falsehoods, would believe what he tricks himself into believing. Which begs the question, is he such a talented liar he tricks even himself?
As for the business of love and the common knowledge of it, I believe that it is indeed not the business of the world to know. Some people may believe that, but the only thing that comes from that (as can be seen by example of Othello and various real-life cases) is trouble.
I would like to restate that I believe that Othello has delved so deep into a world of his own creation that he has lost himself. He is too many people, and his head had no use for his true self.
Iago just makes me so angry! I want to cry reading how he manipulates poor Cassio, and hearing his horrid plans for getting to Othello. It's so sad.But, here are my discussion points in any case.
ReplyDelete1. Does Iago even love Emilia? It sounds like he’s simply using her for the sexual part of marriage. If this is the case, it’s no wonder that he’s so jealous of Othello. Othello is actually deeply in love, and Iago could simply want that kind of relationship with a woman.
2. Poor Cassio. His people’s traditions are just going to be used against him. Kissing Emilia, taking Desdemona’s hand… I want to cry out to him to stop!
3. Iago’s wife is Emilia, the same name as the mother in Comedy of Errors. Could she be a motherly figure in this play?
4. Othello and Desdemona have such a pure love. Why wouldn’t they want to share it with the world? Not to mention, when you’re in love, it gets so hard to contain what you feel for that other person. They would show some outward sign of love anyways, so why not be open with it? It just seems to make that bond so much stronger.
5.How does Iago know exactly what each person wants? Every person he knows that he sees as having power in his goal of getting rid of Othello, he manipulates accordingly. But how does he find out their desires in the first place? Do they tell him?
6. Like Carlin says, has Iago simply convinced himself that Othello and Cassio slept with his wife, or does he truly, honestly believe that they did? If he were to have just convinced himself, it would make it that much easier to let anger take over in his plot.
Love is a sacred bond that should be proclaimed at the lovers' will. Unless the well being of an individual is being played with there is no need for love to be any ones business other than those in love. However if those in love feel the necessity to share this bond with the world, so bee it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carlin about how Iago is so caught up in his lies and multiple personalities that there is no essence of the "real Iago" left. this jealousy towards Othello might just be a result of built up anger and lies. I do however love the fact that he is referred to as honest Iago, he has people eating out of his palm and they don't even know it, Cassio has no idea of the part he plays in Iago's scheme.
1. I think that when two people are in love I don’t think it’s particularly anyone’s business. You can either accept they’re in love or you can’t, but you can’t change the fact that they are in love.But it can be the families business, because if the two in love are getting married, then the spouse will be part of the family. And if someone is having an affair, then it’s the spouses’ business to know that their partner isn’t faithful, but it isn’t other people’s business what happens in someone else’s love life.
ReplyDelete2. go Desdemona for taking on Iago. He’s stupid and she can take the fight that Iago is pushing for. Desdemona is witty. And shame on Iago for being mean to his wife. That’s just rude.
3. How can Roderigo continue to trust Iago! He’s already taken all of his money and wants Roderigo to do all these stupid things so “Roderigo can have Desdemona”. Pish. Like that’s going to happen.
4. I think that the herald should be a bystander throughout the play. Even if he’s just a bush or an extra. I think that he should just pop out of the background and kind of give backgrounds and foreshadowing hints to the audience. It should be a game to find the Herald on stage.